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Comments from readers

New California Republic posts a select number of responses both pro and con. If you would like to contribute a longer, thoughtful essay favoring one view or another, please submit it to info@newCaliforniarepublic.org. Paste your comments in the body of the email. No attachments please. Thank you for visiting New California Republic.

Date posted
12/29/04
Our state flag is a replica of the Bear Flag for the California Republic, which was in fact a fledgling independent nation, somewhat like Texas. It is inately a discrete geographical unit in every sense. Only deserts, and thinly populated mountains are found around this state's domestic borders. Only huge Tijuana, about the size of Chicago, touches California in an Urban near contact at our international Border. I am a Green/Libertarian,secular Californian who has voted Republican in most elections. I think we should put our foot down about they way the Bush presidency and the National Democrats have catered to the vast "army" of largely unwelcomed migrants from Mexico. But, that being said, I feel that we have a moral obligation to embrace the Mexican-American community who actually have established themselves here. I think ending illegal immigration should be a constitutional keystone, in any new California National declaration of Independence, or new constitution. All future border crashers should be treated as felons upon arrest, prohibited from applying for entrance for at least 10 years. They should be sentenced to work on public works related to Border security for a year before deportation. I take this seemingly harsh position, in the same way that Mexico must take a hard line with non-Mexicans crossing their sourthern border. There is a ligitimate concept in geo-politics. I think is is called "IRREDENTISM" That is the common sense perception that people from a bordering nation, having strong cultural differences with the nation concerned, must put reasonable controls on immigration from that other neighboring country, or in time, they become the dominant political force in the area, and can, through war or plebicite, gain actual legal control of the "invaded" region. Therefore, it is widely recognized that immigrants from ANYWHERE ELSE are inately more likely to conform to the cultural norms of the existing state after immigration. than those who have family and culture a few hundred miles away or closer. California, whether under the U.S. nation, or as an independent nation MUST address this greatest threat to stability and prosperity in California. We have 3 choices, Strengthen U.S. commitment to securing California, Plan to return the state to Mexico by perhaps the end of the Century, or form a new California Nation State, commited to remaining a first world economy, and closing off the toxic effect of run-away immigration while totally accepting the established Californians of Mexican orig.No illegal immigrants should be employed after independence, and any employer should be sent to work on the labor gangs maintaining the border security. Sadly, Mexico is so out of control that it must be treated as a kind of pathogenic problem...like a terrible plague, that must be controlled or it will take most western hemisphere down with it. With almost no overseas immigration, Mexico's population has increased 700% in 100 years. That doesn't count the 40 million that have come to the U.S. The Mexican/Californians who will be the the largest group in the new nation, need to buy into these facts, and accept the implications of further immigration. I honestly think they will!
--Allan (Simi Valley, CA)

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12/29/04
Why don't just the bay area and L.A County leave. Orange, San Bernardino, Riverside and the east part of the state is conservative. I think we would all be happy if the bay area and L.A. left. The real dictators are the socialists that try to outlaw anything they don't like, not the conservatives. Please leave as soon as possible.
--Paul (Anaheim, CA)
12/28/04
very interesting idea!
--Lisa (Yorba Linda, CA)
12/28/04
I am a proud American who believes in America and all it stands for and not just threatening to leave if elections don't go my way. Eight years of Clinton and I never thought about giving up on America.
--Bob (Glendora, CA)
12/28/04
Your web site does not seem to mention one little problem. The Mexican Reconquista of the state of California. Illegal Immigration from Mexico..that's why my family left California. They have a better chance of controlling California then you do. And that is a sad thing.
--A. (formerly San Clemente, CA)
12/28/04
This would be nearly impossible but a movement like this would be a wakeup call to the morons in Washington.
--Thomas (Laguna Niguel, CA)
12/28/04
Please let this happen, that way I can move out of his communist state. Take our commie Governor with you also! You elected him I didn't, Tom McClintock was the best choice. All the left wing wacko's and star struck idiots put Arnie in office. Kalifornia use to be a great state but is now just a stomping ground for all of America's trash! Give us your burnouts, illegal aliens, walfare cases blah blah blah. Just remember that it was the big cities that won the state for Kerry, look at a breakdown of the counties. There were more that voted for Bush but L.A., Frisco and SD have more people that eat fruits and nuts. Let's keep running California into the ground, good job Arnie. I don't know why your worried about secession, the left wing wacko's running CA already do the opposite of the rest of the U.S. Ever hear the saying "if you can pass it in Kali, you can pass it anywhere"? Why do you think other people in other states hate us? Because they think "we" come up with all the stupid laws! Heck, I'm surprised they haven't banned your website yet. We ban everything else, you can't even enjoy California anymore because Suzie socker mom thinks it's bad. Go ahead, seceed, please!
--Shawn (Lancaster, CA)
12/28/04
You better read our constitution. It matters not if every person in California chose to separate. Besides California is made up of more than just blue people. You may have a majority but it is FAR from overwhelming.
--Jerald (Whitmore, CA)
12/27/04
The word "liberal" currently has a negative connotation and should not be used as much. I would concentrate on the word "moderate" to describe the people of California. I think most Californians are moderate. The current two party system that dominated US politics should be trumped by a third party for moderates. Economics and the environment should be the key motivators for California secession. California is a wealthy state that has nothing to show for it.

--Rebecca (San Pedro, CA)
12/27/04
We're here where the redwoods are being hacked to death by corporate "liquidation logging" being prosecuted by the s&l; mogul, Charles Hurwitz, who took over Pacific Lumber (or PALCO) lumber. He's based in (you guessed it) Texas. The old giants have been cut to a fraction of their numbers just since I got here 7 years ago. It's more than alarming.
--Anne (-------, CA)
12/27/04
I live in a Red State currently, but would support the recreation of the Republic of Calfiornia. I have, for years, felt there was a second "Civil War", as it were, coming.
--L.S. (Hollywood, FL)
12/26/04
I entirely support this idea and have been saying it for quite some time. It makes a whole lot of sense for us. Let's make an America founded on the actual ideas found in the constitution. Not just the conservative religious twistings of them.
--Angela (La Habra, CA)
12/25/04
I actually thought about the possibility of secession about a year before the election. Not only did it protect us from the religious right, but it made economic sense, considering we could take total control of the pacific rim trade economy. At first, all my friends thought I was crazy to suggest it, but now, after the election, they are far more accepting of the idea. I am pleased to find that there are clearly many more who believe this might be a necessary move, and would like to involve myself in any way possible.
--Jeff (Irvine, CA)
12/24/04
I appreciate how you are handling this discussion. While secession sounds radical you are putting forth some very rational ideas that are inclusive of views that transcend the political spectrum. Frankly I had never given much thought to the feasibility of an independent California, but your approach makes it seem almost plausible. Keep up the good work.
--Marcia (Palo Alto, CA)
12/23/04
The Feds will NEVER allow California secession without a fight. It took the combined strength of the entire south to allow secession, and the bloodiest war in America to put and end to it. Still, it inspires hope in a damaged political community to dream about it! I for one, and many other activists were talking about secession since the Reagan administration, so I have to say I appreciate Moveon California for creating a mass dialogue on the subject.
--Dave (Los Angeles, CA)
12/23/04
The idea of secession reeks of sour grapes. Instead of fixing the problems inherent in your party, you choose to whine and want to run away from percieved evils. Bush won because your party had nothing to offer the majority of Americans. Your party was taken over decades ago by rich, arrogant elitists. And until you purge them from their lofty positions of power the democrats will never again hold the presidency. Get rid of the Gores, Kennedys, Kerrys, Soros' and the McAulifs. Those are the people that have brought your party to the brink of ruin. Even blacks and Hispanics (I am one) are abandoning your party in increasing numbers.
--Rico (Sacramento, CA)
12/23/04
Yes, please do and take your senators with you.
--Joe (Franklin, OH)
12/23/04
Secession is a great idea, even if it only involved California. The sensitive, enlightened, progressive population centers of the US no longer need to be bound to the knuckle-draggers in the Red states. Would the people of the new countries initially have dual citizenship, at least until people had a reasonable time to move from one area to another?
--Roger (Charlotte, NC)
12/23/04
This is ridiculous. You guys are just sore losers. "Conservative domination" my ass. If Gavin Newsom and the gays hadn't chose their innopportune moment to make a stand, your nominee would probably be in office. Now shut up and quit whining.
--Jack (Atherton, CA)
12/22/04
It is about time! It is time we take our life style on the road. Freedom with responsibility and vision.
--Michael (Sacramento, CA)
12/22/04
Secession is not a dream, it is a vision of the people who want to improve upon their lives and obtain honest representation in the voice of government. If our forefather did not have this dream where do you think we would be today? Is it a risk, without a doubt, but lessened when carefully planned and implemented by the people as a whole. Would the federal government let California go without a fight or threat of force? The answer is yes if done in the proper manner and with the support of the International community, which would lend creditability to its establishment and official recognitions as a sovereign state. How do people think other countries are formed? Some questions have been about the need to print our own money, why? There are several other sovereign countries who currently use and recognize the US dollar as their official currency, yet they are not a part of, governed by, or territory of the USA. What about the lands held by the federal go! vernment? These lands would become the sovereign property and under the control of the new republic, yet there need not be a fight for control for lands which are military bases. The new republic would negotiate in good faith of the people, for the lease and subsequent lease payment of the lands, or perhaps a usage exchange in return for providing the national protection of the new republic, while officially recognizing our national boundaries and waters. How do you think the last remaining superpower in the world would look or be conceived, it they were to oppress or prevent, by force or otherwise, a movement for independence within their own lands, by the people under due process. When we preach democracy and freedom to the world, that still applies to us as well. As for revenues for this bold new republic, consider this. California has one of the largest economies in the world, not to mention that 100% of taxes, tariffs, and such would stay in California for the pe! ople of California. We have the largest and busiest sea ports in the USA, where 80% of container traffic enters the USA, and departs. Don’t believe me, just ask the Longshoremen’s Union. We are capable of self supporting air traffic, ground breaking scientific research, educational advancements, public opinion and the list goes on! Would we be giving up our rights? No, we would have to draft and adopt a national constitution, fairly elect our 1st national congress and our political leaders. Could this happen quickly, not a chance, but it could within the next four years, if this is what the people, all the people want and desire, expressed by a vote. We would once again control our lives, our rights and freedoms, our economy, and our future. It’s an interesting discussion, and a profound possibility that should be considered before we lose much more to special interests and groups on the other coast, and political misrepresentations. I for one would be proud to serve on a committee to explore the future of California.
--Don (Garden Grove, CA)
12/21/04
I think the idea is worth considering, especially now, with the U.S. in danger of becoming a fascist theocracy. Since the election I have thought of this, in many forms, i.e, california, oregon, washington, northeast states, some great lakes states joining canada. I truly don't see any deviation from the right-wing path we seem to be heading down at this time in our history. The right now controls the executive, legislative, judicial, and it seems the election process as well. The last 2 presidentail elections were fraudulent, especially the 2004 one, florida, ohio, and who knows where else. I have absolutely no confidence in our electoral process. Please keep me informed, I am very interested in this.
--Robert (San Simeon, CA)
12/21/04
Hey, tell me what you think. Move-on California wants to introduce an initiative to have CA leave the union and become a left wing state. My response of their website:
The dream of the left is the creation of a social state. Secession at the expense of making this powerful economy an independent nation would be a temporary dream at best and in the long term a nightmare. It would in the end be an economic and social disaster. And before you even think or say racism, I am an American of MEXICAN ancestry! A dose of reality here so please read as you are ignoring the Mexican factor California has yet to accept.
Secession without establishing border enforcement for example would open the state to uncontrolled immigration that would drain and erode the middle class that you would depend on paying the budget of the state and driving the economy in a way that you couldn't imagine today. With the non-Hispanic population reproducing less than Mexican immigrants (Mexican Americans not including other Hispanics will be over 50% of the population by the year 2080) what would stop a future generation from putting it up to a vote and supporting joining the nation of Mexico? Does your group even bother to stop and think that socialism would not be accepted by a largely religious, highly Catholic population who would be more likely to lean towards fascism? The dream nows gets shorter and proves naive to the new minority: whites.
Do you honestly think that you Gringos will be treated well by a gov't and population that is still furious for having lost CA and the south west to the whites. And do you think you will receive the generous treatment you wish upon other by a population who could now exact their revenge like most humans in history who act on the ghosts of the past? Ethnic cleansing was never thought possible in a peaceful multi ethnic Yugoslavia in the 1980s but a few years later this nation destroyed itself in civil war and genocide. Could it happen in CA? Whitey, visit the bario in East L.A. at night! LOL Do you really want to live under the corruption of the Mexican gov't? Think how well blacks are treated in Mexico today. Don't have the answer to that? Just ask blacks who dare visit Mexico. And in the end, all you would end up doing is asking for what remains of the U.S. for help. And by the way like most Americans of Mexican ancestry, I have to tell you we believe in God and ! if faced with a choice of ideals from some left over from the Haight Ashbury days pot smoking hippie or the Catholic church, who do you think we would we side with? Most Mexicans in the U.S. are Catholic and about 25% are evangelical Christians.
Like most true Americans, I find my loyalty to my nation rather than my race and pray this never happens because Mexico ran us Mexicans off our own nation by their failed economic policies and corruption. White America has been good to my family but not all Mexicans see it that way. After all (and look this up) one aspect of Mexico's foreign policy is to expand their borders. So do you think withholding the economic development Mexico could be capable of is an accident? More poor Mexicans come to the CA, the quicker this land goes back to Mexico. As a Mexican American, we should be glad we are part of the U.S. since Mexico didn't want us in our country so chinga Vincente Fox y Viva America! And as an American you should be glad that I'm on American's side because most Mexican Americans if faced with a choice, would prefer to be part of Mexico and a religious nation than a socialist system that would promote gay marriages and a Godless state.
Lastly, ignoring the values of all Californians, including those who oppose legalizing drugs and want Under God on our coins and have a belief in God regardless of religion will not be supported this over all. The far left and far right has had a history of arrogance by ignoring most of us who live in the middle and we know it. We just have to act up and we're starting too.
--Gabe (Orange, CA)
12/21/04
California Secession is a great concept. Although I love the U.S., and I've been an honest, good-hearted, kind, hardworking, law-abiding, environmentally sensitive citizen--I certainly don't wish to live the rest of my life governed by those who are not. Bring it on!!!!!
--Brenda (Santa Barbara, CA)
12/21/04
At first, it seems like a great idea. But it is a significant and serious one, and a lot of analysis will have to be done. California may be the fifth or fourth largest economy in the world, but do we have a trade surplus or a trade deficit with regard to the other states? How do we feel about the possibility of being embargoed? How do we feel about the fences now facing Mexico from our border being moved to face us from the borders of Oregon, Nevada and Arizona? An ICE garrison in Primm, Nevada? Interstates 5, 10 and 15 blocked by checkpoints? How do we feel if the federal government decides we Californians are “with the terrorists”, as no doubt the current regime in Washington thinks of many of us already? Will California remain one state or will it split asunder itself, with many of the rural counties choosing to rejoin a union led by their fellow conservatives and even possibly acting as fifth columns? It might be far easier at first to go with war tax resistance, to encourage all disgruntled Californians to reduce their IRS payments en masse, and to make statements in support of mutiny among the soldiers being called by IRR and held by stop-loss to continue fighting in Iraq against their wishes. With luck, if Rumsfeld keeps being allowed to open his mouth, that will happen eventually anyway.
--Avery (Bay Point, CA)
12/21/04
I have lived in a red state for years, and redneck stupidity is deeply ingrained here in the south. Blue states' economies have funded this country since reconstruction, yet backward racism, fundamentalist xenophobia, and a love of violence remain the three legs of southern culture and society. Lincoln was wrong. Simply put, democracy and a free civilized society are not valued in the south or by many red staters. In their churches they drone on about the Kingdom of God, indeed they much prefer the yoke of tyranny to living in a decent democratic society.
--Richard (Atlanta, GA)
12/21/04
I think a well thought out, well worded ballot initiative would be a good idea. I would caution you against gradualism, using civil rights for African Americans and for "the happy people" as historical warnings. It's also necessary to get some credible heavy hitters, politically, morally, celebrity-wise, on board before proceeding to do more than just talk. Thank you for giving me hope.
--Judith (San Diego, CA)
12/21/04
I was just wondering. If California secedes from the US, invariably there will arise disputes over taxes and trading since most if not all of our Asian imports have to come through the state. I think that rail and road services will have to be allowed, unimpeded and untaxed through the state. I don't think that most Americans would object to the secession per se, but no inconveniences to American businesses or commerce could be tolerated or else this topic is just an academic excercise.
--Ben (Decatur, GA)
12/21/04
Comments are all but unnecessary, insofar as the need for secession is concerned. First, we must determine if such a thing is feasible at all. If it is, there are a million and one things to discuss, including whether such a move when placed for a vote, should be timed to coincide with presidential elections, so that a majority of the voters in any State considering secession should be able to move in and out of it, as they will.
--John (Los Angeles, CA)
12/21/04
PLEASE LOOK INTO THE LAW IN TEXAS REGARDING THEY RENEW THEIR CONTRACT WITH THE FEDERAL GOV. EVERY YEAR. IT IS THE LOGICAL THING TO DO WHEN YOUR CULTURE , PEOPLES,FUTURE IS ATTACKED.
--Ivano (Petaluma, CA)
12/21/04
Go for it! The sooner California is freed from those fascists and empire builders in DC, the better. Enough of their insanity!
--Reece (Sebastopol, CA)
12/21/04
We haven't had a civil war in over 100 years. Think of the re-enactments, memorabilia, documentaries, etc., etc.
--Ruth (Berkeley, CA)
12/21/04
Your rational approach to this issue is commendable. "Winning Hearts and Minds" is the important first step, so people see that California as an entity is viable and it had solid reasons for secession, not just grumpy post-election blues. I will do all I can to help! What can I do?
--Ryan (------, CA)
12/20/04
We re troubled by many things happening in our nation: economic kamakazi, loss of civil liberties, and last but not least war mongering. The nationalism seems dangerously tainted with intolerance. The sooner the better as far as we are concerned .. leave the union; we don't want to be a part of this kind of behavior.
--Jeanette (Santa Cruz, CA)

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