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Comments from readers

Date posted
11/24/04
Secession is an alternative to continued economic and environmental decline. If California were free of the expense of on-going military ventures all over the world, we could lower taxes and still have universal health care, old age security and a clean environment. The question is whether we sit by and let our destiny be dictated by corporations and right wingers or take our destiny into our own hands. I am ready to support progress.
--Mary Ellen (Los Angeles, CA)
11/24/04
I enthusiastically support independence for California and other 'Blue' States. I support Northeast independence and seek affiliations with west coast secessionists. I'd like to play a part in the inevitable establishment of a new American nation founded on enlightened values and with a reality-based outlook.
--Simon (Philadelphia, PA)

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11/24/04
Californians should prepare to at least threaten secession, in order to protect our values. A credible threat would require support among military vets and others with skill in using violence for self-defense. Popular support, and ensuing capacity for self-defense, must be built over decades. This is not a short term project.
--Rik (Berkeley, CA)
11/23/04
RE: "Wouldn't it be simpler for those who are SO unhappy to just move to Europe?" (see comment below)
Actually, it would be simpler if those who supported Bush and the Republicans moved to Texas.
--Frederick (Revere, MA)
11/23/04
There would naturally be many conservatives who would leave the state if such a thing were to happen. I suggest a "property swap" where Repubs could check out listings from Red Staters who want to move to California & be a part of a free country. Property-swap real estate agencies could become a new cottage industry! Oh, and how about including Hawaii? There is still a "back to independence" movement alive there.
--Lee (Fort Wayne, IN)
11/22/04
I've been thinking for a long time that this needs to happen. Aside from the economic subsidy we extend to the red states, they would be happy to see us go our own way.
--Chris (San Francisco, CA)
11/22/04
Wouldn't it be simpler for those who are SO unhappy to just move to Europe?
--Elizabeth (Oxnard, CA)
11/21/04
I suggest this. Put the idea of secession on a special election ballot, BUT have it so that it goes by county. any county voting for secession is immediately and PERMANENTLY kicked out of what will be called Old California, and out of the USA. The counties that vote for secession will become the People's Republic of Kalifornia or something. You "blue counties" can then vote for 90% tax rates on the "rich" and pretend that your totalitarian tactics don't hurt anyone while social services collapse due to a dying economy. The counties that stay part of the US can then make California a loyal red state.
Note, if you truly put this up to a vote I expect that the SF Bay Area as well as several counties near LA will vote to secede. San Diego county would not, nor will most of the central valley counties as they are rather "conservative" and resent the fact that the 2 urbanized liberal strongholds effectively eliminate any reasonable discussion about the direction this state should take.
--Mark (San Diego, CA)
11/21/04
Can we go through the initiative process with this? How many petition signatures are required to put a proposition on the state ballot? My opinion is that we should form an alliance with secessionist movements in OR, WA and HI to work toward creating the new nation of Pacifica. Once our citizens realize how many of their tax dollars go to subsidize the red states, this movement will find traction.
P.S.--As much as I despise Arnold and fear his megalomania, perhaps we could exploit his ambition and use him to spearhead our efforts. He wants so badly to be a president; Pacifica would not require a constitutional amendment to allow that, and Arnold might be able to pronounce Pacifica more easily than he does "Kah-lee-forn-ee-ah."
--Ken (Camarillo, CA)
11/20/04
I am interested in working to free California from Jesusland. I'm tired of being screwed by the Nazi RepubliKKKan Party!
--Joe (Los Angeles, CA)
11/20/04
In 1913, the U.S. government eliminated the principle of the doctrine of federalism, that is popular representation in the US House of Representatives. How so you ask?
Simply, the U.S. government affixed the House membership to 435 members. Previously, the basis membership size was a fixed ratio based upon the population count determined by the decennial census, the exact and ONLY reason for the Census as established by the doctrine of federalism and embodied within the U.S. Constitution.
By affixing the membership, the usurpers of power effectively changed fundamentally the institution of Congress and hence eliminated the doctrine of federalism.
The result of changing the institution, i.e., the rules, created a single Senate of 535 members, where one-third of the membership comes before election ever two years. If you change fundamental rules to a game, the game no longer exists. The result is the creation of an entirely new game.
In states like our beloved California, popular citizens, i.e., citizens of the mass without any real power to influence public policy, lack real popular representation as expected by the framers as expressed by the Original Design.
Public Citizens, i.e., those part of the plutocracy who have the financial means to influence special interest, regardless of state, have their way to control what happens to the masses.
If you want to remedy the situation, you must restore popular representation in the U.S. House. Afterward, eliminate U.S. person status for incorporateds, but that is for another lesson.
--Pierre (Thousand Oaks, CA)
11/20/04
It would be great if California could distance itself from the religous ideologues making their way into mainstream politics but if California wants to seced, in addition to all the problems such as fighting against the rest of the nation and economic isolation and turmoil, it would also fall on deaf ears of many Californians living in the interior. Look at the 2004 election results, many inland counties from the Mexican to the Oregon border voted went for President Bush. Remember how West Virginia was formed? It split away from Virginia during the civil war due to differences on slavery and Southern nationalism.
--Gerald (Davis, CA)
11/20/04
Please by all means make for your state a new nation. Maybe this will also inspire the New England States as well. This would indeed make the rest of America a stronger, more moral nation.
--Todd (Harvest, AL)
11/19/04
Can you include Chicago as a protectorate of California?
--Sean (Long Beach, CA)
11/19/04
The idea of secession came to my mind awhile before this past election, and I love it, but at the current time I don't see how many in our great state that support a governor who went to the Republican convention endorsing Bush, despite clear ideological differences, and where 44.3% actually voted for Bush, will ever consider it a viable option. I also have a question: I thought I've read that 60% of Californian's tax dollars go to the federal gov, is this exaggerated, or true? And no matter what the percent is, what federal services/programs/funding would the State have to pick up if secession succeeded? Obviously some federal gov funds go toward education, but gee it's not like our K-12 system is doing all that great as it is. How I hope that in my lifetime this concept gains some ground, your group is doing a great service in at least starting a dialogue and presenting the idea to Californian's.

--Matthew (San Jose, CA)
11/19/04
Can you include Chicago as a protectorate of California?
--Brian (Chicago, IL)
11/18/04
I think it is an option that should be seriously considered. California has long been disenfranchised in DC, abandoned by Republicans and taken for granted by Democrats. By allowing the citizens of the state to focus on state issues better, we can use our resources to aid and better California. Plus, we can actually lower taxes by ensuring the current levels of federal income tax remain in California, thereby relieving current state tax bracket. From my travels across the country, I honestly do not think the rest of the country would care, and they would probably be very happy to see those "California Liberals" leave the US, and allow the rest of the country to live a true moral existence.
--Carl (San Francisco, CA)
11/18/04
California should rightfully leave the Union for economic, and political reasons. As the country uses California's resources to profit, California itself grows weaker. The most populous state in the Union is not getting representation in congress or the government. This is all occuring while a evangelical christian movement planning on blurring the lines of church and state. Obviously the founding fathers of the United States would look down in shame. As for the civil war question, How many americans outside of california would be willing to fight a war against other californians, most of whom who have relative residing within the state.
--Robert (Davis, CA)
11/18/04
I consider myself to be a liberal democrat which has become quite taboo. However, given that I hve to stongly disagree with anyone who thinks a seccession is a good idea. Despite the outrageous events of the recent election, and the most likely promise of four more years of the same, it is not the proper course of action to deviate from the principles this nation and California were built upon. I want to add a piece of information about the education each of us is presented with up through HS. In our educational experiences, everyone has taken a history course. The purpose of these course is to understand the past's ideologies and conflicts. If we ignore the past and what it has taught us, then we are destined to repeat the sme mistakes. I fully understand the sentiment behind seccession, but not the practicality of it. California is what it is because of the country it belongs to, not because it is self sufficient. Our economy would suffer with likely severred ti! es to the US trading and military support. War would be waged between the US and California, and the world would find another circumstance the Western Hemisphere has not seen in over a century. Does anyone really want California to become like Chechnya? or Palestine? or the many other similar cases... I think seccession is wrong politically, socially and economically. People are not governed by emotions, they are governed by reason, and the emotions are high and reasonable, however the logic of the course of action is not. Stop the talk of seccession, think of more constructive ways to better yourselfs and those around you. I hope one day the american people can be better informed not only of the issues in the USA but outside. We are truly an isolated country already, lets not further alienate ourselves as a state.
--Eric (California)
11/18/04
I am relieved/surprised to hear that there is such a consideration for change within our state. I jokingly commented that CA should break away after the election results. I personally am leaving for France once I graduate. For me, itís either a succession or a flight from the US. How can I get involved with the movement as a student at UC Davis?
--Stacy (Davis, CA)
11/18/04
Thank you to those putting this site together. However, I would like to see a coordinated multi-state effort among the states with movements. There are big big challenges and we cannot do it without working together. A national web site with discussion forum, with national and individual region/state sub-forums would be great. One of those big challenges is communicating with the general public, which is wary of any significant changes such as this. I would like to see an effort to write white papers discussing and clarifying the issues, and how it is beneficial to everyone, including the "red" states we leave behind, and get them circulated through the population. I have several friends that privately like the idea of secession but disregard it and would not actually support such a movement. That can help ordinary people overcome their resistance to the idea and see this as non-threatening and a possible solution.
Also, a problem California has that is shared with other states including here in Oregon: regional differences. An idea I would like to propose, for at least the west coast states, is to dissolve the state level as well, breaking down perhaps at the county level to form a bunch of tiny little countries that all work together in some sort of alliance or commonwealth. I think the "red" counties in our states would be more open to it then as they would have more control over their affairs. State and federal assets within a state could be divvied up to their respective new county/nations and collectively owned&operated; (e.g. prisions).
Also, if the federal government does not support the secession, all we have to do is ignore it and go about our business like a Taiwan. They will not send troops; their preoccupied destroying Iraq, Afghanistan, and soon Iran. Furthermore, "red" states would not support such a war movement because it is in their best interest for us to leave and not thin out their electoral votes and congress. Further, it would be difficult to convince U.S. troops to fire on what they perceive as U.S. citizens.
--David (Portland, OR)
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